Thanks for this comment.
I get you point that it may not be a runner's fault. Nevertheless, why is missing a deadline a rule? There are many runners that are doing a second or third GB and they still have the same problems.

Maybe some GB runner should speak up about their real profit? I wonder what is a percent of profit from an average group buy (I am sure we won't ever get an answer). I wonder if there is a space for improvement of a quality.
I bet no GB runner does it pro publico bono ;)

I don't think we understand each other.

But that's what most group buys look like :DEven with big manufacturers like Zeal. They start GB without even having an idea how to make on or don't even have samples from manufacturers.

That's how I encourage scammers? WTF man, I literally am praying for the opposite...

I'm taking about a person who had an idea, started the whole thing and is responsible for the undertaking. In a normal business if you are selling something, you are responsible for problems of your coworkers and manufacturers, not clients.

I have a friend that has a laser CNC that costed WAY less than yours. Gives and amazing quality (not sure about efficiency so maybe you would need 5 of them for a GB). I am also taking raw materials cost under account and I do think that people are overpricing their GB keyboards heavily.

Even if your CNC costs 25k USD and it is only a fraction of you investment, when you sell 100 keyboards that cost 1000k USD, it's still a small cost. Not to mention it's an investment and if you really only want to do one group buy, just freaking sell it afterwards.

Let it cost 10x that. If you are selling 100 keyboards for the price of 1k USD, you can invest in that. Especially if you are as "big" as rama or zeal and you are planning to do GB in the future. That's how a normal manufacturing business works in real life.

Good example. Big name (like Zeal) and a service/managing quality that a vegetable stand lady would laugh at.

That's exactly what I am saying, If the only thing you can provide as a GB host is an idea and a good will, then I am better off with other costly hobbies, that provide items with not only good quality, but also a basic quality of service.

1000 dollars for a CNC machine is not a lot if you are selling keyboards that each one of them cost 1k.

A person named Fran on mykeyboard.eu discrord channel said they are meeting deadlines... I don't know what I should think about it now...

Lily does indeed support rotary encoders (at least newer versions). I think that's it's just a modern "available" alternative

Thanks for the example!
It's a good looking keyboard. How different is it from Lily?

> should support are the ones who are constantly updating through all the delays and being transparent. Not the ones who just sit in silence with no updates.

But the only thing it changes is that you just support more communicative options. It doesn't encourage them to choose better suppliers.
Maybe the problem is the fact that everybody wants to cheap out and have 50% of the profit from an item, so they are choosing China and other cheap and affected sources.
I have a vision, that a person who wants to make a group buy doesn't want to end at one action. In my perfect world this person would do the whole thing professionally, by for example hiring a worker and buying a CNC machine to create switchplates and to pack them. And of course you can extrapolate it further to other parts of the keyboard.
In this way you have to pay worker, you have to invest money in tools and you have to really commit.
What I see happens instead, is an enthusiast who has a good idea and sometimes even skill in graphic design. At best. At worst it is a business who is a fan, but also wants to purely earn as much as possible. None of it is bad, but the latter is cheaper and that's what appeals to people. What I am preaching is that we should choose the former option. What changes? With the proper demand and pressure from customers, both will get professional - the enthusiast and the businessman. In order to provide a basic quality of service (meeting deadlines, or even having the product in stock instead of doing a pathological form of fulfilment) they will have to choose local manufacturers or will have to have proper backoffice (facility) to manufacture in house. Yes, it will lower the income (profit) but it will give us a normal quality of service.

I would say we should collectively either only attend group buys from hosts that meet deadlines or we shouldn't attend any. At least that's what I am planning to do.

I only managed to hear that Keyrative is meeting their deadlines so far. I will be glad to learn about other sellers.